Tells

[AAQueen]

What do you consider some common tells. I find the people I play with tend to check their hole cards a lot. Is that a sign that they have good cards or are they just forgetful?

[zeppelin46]

WOW!.... I cant wait to run into you in a poker game!

-Z

[Lil IrishC2]

They key to avoiding having a tell is to be conscious of all of your gestures.
Make sure that no matter what your hand is you look at your cards the same way. If you touch your face with bad cards make sure you do it with good cards.

When your not involved in a hand watch the other players. You may pick up on one of their tells, or see who else is studying other players.

[Mike Watters]

Found this on the 'Net...

1. Watch the Eyes

This is why many pros wear sunglasses or visors/caps when playing, they know that the eyes rarely lie. For eg. many players can't help but stare at big hole cards, so their length of time peeking is longer. Conversely, if a player is looking to steal the pot, he may look to his left to see if the remaining players, who haven't yet acted, have quickly glanced at their cards and are likely to fold. Another eg., a player may try to ask you questions about your hand, knowing that people rarely can "look someone straight in the eyes" while being dishonest.

2. Facial Expression

Again, many pros try to disguise their entire face by wearing a cap and looking downward. This is to avoid the classic stare down that poker pros are famous for. They may try to study your face for nervousness (detecting a weak hand), or even look for repetitive characteristics like a body "tic". You may have obvious unhappiness in your face when your hand is weak, and conversely, you may show a contrasting show of confidence when your hand is strong.

3. Weak is Strong/Strong is Weak

In its most simplistic form, this usually applies to novice players but frequently applies to pros as well. Basically, players like to be actors, and when they have a monster hand they tend to look disinterested. eg. "Oh, is it my turn to act" or "Oh I guess I will play these cards". Alternatively, a player increasing the level of his voice while raising the pot, and trying to look intimidating. may be running a bluff.

4. Anxiety

Anxiety typically occurs in people when they are confronted, or anticipating confrontation. Psychologists call this the "Fight or Flight" stimulus response, which links back to the days when we were cavemen/cave women. Physical changes happen including flexing of muscles, eye pupil dilation, palpitating heart rate, dry throat. In poker, when someone has a big hand they are typically ready for confrontation and can exhibit some of these characteristics. You may see the chest expanding abnormally, or you may notice the players voice become slightly higher as he makes a comment. Some of the top players in the game will stare at the vein on the top-side of your face for blood pressure changes. During a bluff, the player may demonstrate anxiety, but if he knows he will fold the hand if re-raised (non-confrontational end) may look quite comfortable.

5. Trembling Hands

Also, a byproduct of anxiety, beware of a player whose hands are shaking, this nervousness can represent a big hand.

6. Glance at Chips

Again, relating to the eyes. It is common for players to quickly glance at their chips if they connect with the board after a Flop for example. This may be a subconscious reaction, but the player is already planning his attack.

7. Peeking Hole Cards on Flop

Some players will take another look at their hole cards when, for example, the board is showing a potential 3 card flush draw. Typically, the player is looking to see if one of his cards is connecting, because he remembers only that the two cards are different suits.

8. Repetitive Betting Patterns

Usually the most revealing tells are based on the way a player habitually bets during particular situations. For example, maybe the player always checks when he has made the nuts, or a player may regularly fold after being re-raised.

9. Body Posture/Attitude

Some players show obvious changes in their posture based on their attitude/hand strength. For instance, you may notice their shoulders drop/slump when they are not confident (weak hand). Conversely, you may notice the player is very attentive and sitting in an erect position when he has strength. You may also notice that a player who bluffs a lot, leans forward in a confrontational way... remember Strong is Weak!

10. Chip Stacking

When you first sit down at a table, study the way the players stack their chips. Although it is a generalization, loose aggressive players typically maintain unorganized/sloppy stacks, while tight conservative players keep well organized/neat stacks.

http://forums.twtf.com/style_emoticons//Upset/poker2.gif

[HuskerBret]

Pick up Caro's Book of Tells, it's awesome.

[xhalfpint x]

Yes husker it is a very good book and they also have it on video, but it is for real table games not online poker . You can download the video from bearshare also and the cost is zero.

xhalfpint x

see you on the battlefield :waytogo

[Julie]

Good point xhalfpint x - online gaming is quite different from brick and mortar playing. So does anyone have any advice on tells for online gaming???

:what:

[xhalfpint x]

I have a few things i consider tells from other players and they seem to work.

1. watch how quick they check, if it is very quick after someone checks then obviously they used the auto play of check fold, so if it comes down to fourth street or the river and they bet huge try to remember they were going to throw their hand away at any given bet. Be careful with some of the more experienced players as they will do this on purpose.

2.Watch for outrageous bets, if someone makes a ridiculous bet he normally has nothing to really worry about as if he had the nuts he would want to keep you in.

3.Watch the way a person bets, if they usually play quick and then on a hand they slow down they probably have something and vice versa.

Well there are a few tips regarding tells that work for me so give them a try and i hope they help you.


xhalfpint x

see you on the battlefield :waytogo:

[Felt Fetish]

Being able to pick up on a tell and actually knowing for a fact your right about it can be very profitable.

This skill takes time to develope and hone at the tables. And unless your a mind reader, theres no way around it.

Exposing yourself to as much play as possible and building a solid game for yourself first will open up the time you will need to actually pay attention to players tells.

Intuition and "gut" feelings I believe can also be benificial if one is finely attuned within themselves.

Start with teaching yourself to first being able to recongnize the experianced vs the newb, the tight vs the loose, the social player vs the serious player, the ones paying attention vs the ones looking around and talking, sort'em out and prey upon the weak and disinterested. :devil:
Then go onto facial ticks, breathing tells (sighs,holding breath, etc.)and those of you with eagle eyes, looking for eye dialation.

Time spent playing exposes you to many different situations with many different players, over time, giving you the invaluable ability to gage players actions more confidently and accuratly.
I might have strayed away from the main subject abit :oops: but feel that these things are an overall must in learning to read players. TY

[Julie]

Thanks for the post felt fetish - you have some insightful tips here :)

P.S. Love the name ;)

[Felt Fetish]

Thank you very much Julie. I pride myself on my cardplayer reading abilities in
which I have benifited from greatly. :dance:

Thanks for the compliment! :)

[zeropants]

:waytogo:
The best tell, from what any pro will tell you, is watching the hands of what people show down with, and keeping track of their betting patterns. It's a bit different if you've playing with someone for hundreds or thousands of hands...but for the most part that will get you the most information the quickest.

Seeing how people play certain cards is a good indication of their playing style and can help you determine a range of cards they may be holding in the future.

Now, good players know this and will change their patterns on purpose. However, they also know that in doing so, they may lose out on profit because they didn't induce as much betting, or they caused people to re-raise them and had to fold, or any other group of reasons...

So, even though they will change once in a while, 75% of the time or better they will play for optimum cash earnings, and vary the other 25%. So, if you get a read on someone, you will have a very good chance of knowing what they hold for a majority of the hands you play against them. Hope that helps.

Online, it's about the only system you can use with any degreee of certainty.

[Hand_Pat]

There are many descriptions about lagging, using the quick buttons ect as "tells" for online poker.

But many of the the ideas are totally inapplicable; because these things are due to other distractions, or tech problems inherent in the game.

Yes! other distractions can show lack of attentiveness; but if someone is playing more than 1 game and trying to bet they might be lagging if other screens r popping up. They may also use the button if the table action is slow going around and they cannot wait for the bar.

Sometimes the bar does not work well; and the betting takes longer to get the desired amount. Sometimes they change screens and hit the wrong button. Or your mouse sticks, or falls off the table.

A lot of things happen that have nothing to do with the cards you are holding or strength of your hand.

:eek:

[x-Aeiou-x]

I find the main difference of online poker is it's more based on the math part of poker then the social. Playing online you tend to play many different people from all walks of life in a very short time. In wich you know nothing about them so you play more on calculating pot odds and number of outs. If you do get chance to play the same people online you also can make notes and classify the way they play. In a live game I think it favors more to the social skill then playing online. Being able to read people as well as knowing and hiding your own tell signs that know one sees online. I find online poker and live poker to be two very different games.

:happy: Added bonus to playing online you can do it in your underwear :silly:

[heraclitus V]

:happy: Added bonus to playing online you can do it in your underwear :silly:

so, you actually keep yours on then?;)

[x-Aeiou-x]

so, you actually keep yours on then?;)
I try :silly:

[ALGOMETER]

One word:GULP!

[xSuper_Mario]

I always seem to play with my chips, or what's left of them :silly: , when I have a decent hand. I think it's a confidence thing...anyone else play or shuffle their chips when they got the nuts??

[honey_comb1]

I think this TELL! say's it all in your signature Algo! :roflmao: :devil: double GULP!

ps... That's Algo's tell, he gulps!

[honey_comb1]

I always seem to play with my chips, or what's left of them :silly: , when I have a decent hand. I think it's a confidence thing...anyone else play or shuffle their chips when they got the nuts??

Watching Jimmy W. the other night... he sure plays with his chippies. I kept touching the t.v. screen wanting to place my hand over his nice and easy... like a momma gently giving the sign "stop that or I will crack your knuckles!" :silly:

[Caroline xx]

Place your hand over his WHAT, Honey? :oops: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

[x-Aeiou-x]

I think this TELL! say's it all in your signature Algo! :roflmao: :devil: double GULP!

ps... That's Algo's tell, he gulps!
Among many other things, but all those are done under the table :devil: You really must play poker with him sometime its is just heavenly :silly:

[honey_comb1]

Place your hand over his WHAT, Honey? :oops: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:


:oops: oh I forgot to type his "HAND" ... the one that plays with his chippies .. OOOOOPSSSS!!!!!! ... (Caroline..your always... catchin my typos :cry: ). :roflmao:

[honey_comb1]

Among many other things, but all those are done under the table :devil: You really must play poker with him sometime its is just heavenly :silly:


I would Vowelette but he scares the gulps outta me!!!!!!!! ;) :oops: and he knows why!!!

[x-Aeiou-x]

I would Vowelette but he scares the gulps outta me!!!!!!!! ;) :oops: and he knows why!!!
What scares you .... well ya :happy: :devil: YOOOOHOOOOO for me

[STINKYBOBAS]

You know thats why I prefer strip poker. Forget the sunglasses, hats, hooded sweatshirts or whatever. Let's get down what really matters. See if you can't spot my tell. :dance:

[wolfgang1337]

I found this interesting article which teaches you how to tell if someone is lying by looking at their eyes.

http://www.blifaloo.com/info/lies_eyes.php

Of course... it doesn't help online. :cool:

[proteinXx]

What about stalling at the tables? Is that a tell? I had a guy tell me I gave away my hand by letting the timer run down. Little did he know my system was having trouble, I had been pushing raise the entire time.

[JimSchwartz]

I find if you play enough hands with the same people at a table, you will occationally be able to pick up on the truly minutest of timing tells.

However, it helps that this person is continuously engaged in the game (not playing more than 1 table).

But this should be used as a last resort.

FIRST you must play your POSITION much more online. This is the best way to win because you see how everyone else bets first.

SECOND, you must watch betting patterns. I know a guy who keeps a Excel spreadsheet open and tracks each bet and what the person had. It's the only way to reliably put them on a hand (Im too lazy and cramped to do this on my tiny laptop).

THIRD, did I mention BETTING PATTERNS and POSITION?

FOURTH, if you really are super attentive, you can pick up on slight timing "stutters" by players. Again, you have to keep track of what these mean, but you can occationally pick up STRENGTH or WEAKNESS based on slight timing variations. BUT, as a whole, I would find these to be highly risky, cause those variations can also mean BIG hand, or BLUFF, equally.

I personally woudn't rely on them as a rule.

But, that being said... If you have a big hand, either two high cards, Ace-paint, or a PP, and you raise a single limper (that you suspect is a bit of a fish) 3x the blinds, and he simply calls (or a fishy player in the BB calls) and the flop comes rainbow Paints and Ace, or Paint-Paint-x, IF they make like a really really quick check, you can usually assume they were just shooting for a low hand. The timing tell is that they didn't hit, and want to get out of the hand as quick as possible... In these instances, you'll be about 75% to 90% to taking the pot right there with a continuation bet (half the pot), whether you hit or not.

At the same time, waiting too long can also be a sign of weakness, althought less reliable (in my experience). And I will sometimes use this as a trick when i have the Nutz to fool people into believing I'm making a last-second audacious bluff.

FIFTH, Table talk... There's no rule against playing with your cards turned up! (I believe?). If you feel like you may be up agains a draw or suckout, its perfectly alright to occationally tell the table what your cards are! Then bet and see how they react. Most weak players will call any draw for any price. If they reraise, you can safely fold and assume they made their hand or have you beat. Rarely will you encounter a good enough player online that will bluff into a hand they know has them beat... But beware, as there are a few.

This technique also helps on occasions to deflect a bad beat. I take the majority of my bad beats from players calling with junk because they have no clue what you have. Ideally, yes, you want these calls, but if you suspect they are just totally weak, and it is costing you more than you are comfortable with risking (with simply top pair for example), it can sometimes help to slow them down by "showing" your hand.

.

[Al N Smithee]

Hi all. :cool:

[3vb0]

Ive come accross this move a couple of times, to my peril.

Player calls you all the way to the river. You bet the river since they have shown no strength so far... they wait until the time limit is almost up then they go all in.

Ive found that this move invariably means they have slow played the stone mortal nuts and aren't bluffing. Been burnt by it more than once. Beware.

[3vb0]

I thought a tell was something like rubbing your ear when you bluffed... I was wrong!

For the definitive work on poker tells and psychology check out -

Caro's Book of Poker Tells: The Psychology and Body Language of Poker by Mike Caro. :waytogo:

No book will translate more directly into $$$ won at the table than this one.

It focuses on the mind game side of poker: why (and what) people do at the table and how to interpret their actions to your advantage. This book will, without a doubt, improve your ability to read other players and to decieve them yourself.

Primarily it applies to live play, since it is about tells, but the thinking style and psychology lessons it imparts are relevant to online play as well, as the motivations behind online player's actions are the same as live players.

Worth it's weight in gold and then some.

[3vb0]

Here's one I've been noticing a bit. I think I'm right, but I am not 100% on it yet. Maybe 80%.

It doesn't really apply to HP because they don't have this option. But on another site I play at there is an auto option to 'bet the pot' available. So when someone selects this option the instant it is checked around to them, their bet, which is equal to the current size of the pot, appears on the table. If you select this option and someone in an earlier position bets then it is automatically de-selected and you must bet manually.

I believe that when someone uses this option to bet they are not bluffing and I put them on top pair or an over pair, i.e a made hand and not a draw or bluff. My logic is: that since they have preselected the 'bet the pot' option they have committed to betting before they have seen what those to act before them will do, so a made hand is all that makes sense to me. I don't think this is the style of a bluffer. I think bluffers watch what early action their is, then possibly hesitate, summoning the courage to bluff, when/if it is checked to them and finally place their bet manually. And I can't see anyone betting their draw on the come betting more than the minimum.

One other thing I have been thinking is that a pot sized bet could indicate that the bettor does not want callers, implying that they are vulnerable to overcards hitting on the turn/river.

Anyone else come accross this? What do you think? :what:

[3vb0]

Well my theory on the 'bet the pot' auto action just took a knock.

I just saw someone use it when they had nothing more than 2 over cards (A Q) to a rag flop and were in last position... :what:

I guess you could call that a bluff... definately not a made hand. It was a very small pot though.

Oh well, I'm not completely abandoning my theory yet, but more observation is required.

[kaytarah]

Here's one I've been noticing a bit. I think I'm right, but I am not 100% on it yet. Maybe 80%.

It doesn't really apply to HP because they don't have this option. But on another site I play at there is an auto option to 'bet the pot' available. So when someone selects this option the instant it is checked around to them, their bet, which is equal to the current size of the pot, appears on the table. If you select this option and someone in an earlier position bets then it is automatically de-selected and you must bet manually.

I believe that when someone uses this option to bet they are not bluffing and I put them on top pair or an over pair, i.e a made hand and not a draw or bluff. My logic is: that since they have preselected the 'bet the pot' option they have committed to betting before they have seen what those to act before them will do, so a made hand is all that makes sense to me. I don't think this is the style of a bluffer. I think bluffers watch what early action their is, then possibly hesitate, summoning the courage to bluff, when/if it is checked to them and finally place their bet manually. And I can't see anyone betting their draw on the come betting more than the minimum.

One other thing I have been thinking is that a pot sized bet could indicate that the bettor does not want callers, implying that they are vulnerable to overcards hitting on the turn/river.

Anyone else come accross this? What do you think? :what:



Might not be bluffing .. or.. they are playing more than one table and have a somewhat decent hand to allow for betting the pot.