5 Card Draw Questions...

[3vb0]

Anyone got any decent pointers about 5 card draw? I'd particularly like some advice about the draw and splitting pairs.


Thanks.

[Amandolyn]

I love this game. I do pretty good in at the tables. I follow a few simple rules that seem to work for me. 1. inside straights are a no no. 2. When I have two pair and they are low, I watch the players and see who takes how many cards. This is great if I am last :silly: If I see 2 go for only one card I assume one of them has two pair. I will pick one pair to keep and throw away the other (this DOESN't always work to my benifit, sometimes I get the card to go to the other pair), but more times than not it worked just fine. Then there are times I just keep those two pair and hope I get one to match either. 3. If dealt a high pair I usually bump the pot a bit. Especially Aces. 4. find a table and stay at it long enough to see how the others are playing. I did this the other night. I went in with 3 bucks, I had watched for a bit and noticed this one guy would always bet 2 bucks when he had aces(to me an easy target) So I sat down and patiently waited and was dealt trips. I Purposly only took ONE card. Wanted him to think I had maybe two pair or going for flush or straight. Bet came around he went 2$. I went all in and he followed. He had Aces and 2's I had trip 3's. I was able to do this to him a few times and when I left I had $47.00, Not a bad hour. So the best advice I could give you would be. WWATCH them and watch them closely!!

[3vb0]

Thanks for the tips! :waytogo:

[3vb0]

If I get dealt a pair, Ks or smaller and one A, should I keep the pair and draw 3 cards or keep the pair and the A and draw 2 cards?

[Amandolyn]

I prefer taking the 3 cards for better odds BUT if I am last to draw and everyone took 3 or more, I might try for the 2, now the odds change cause now I am able to fit 5 cards with my hand IF there were no others dealt and still have a pretty good shot at having the highest hand

[ADAMTHEXPERT]

Gee another of those questions that requires HOURS to answer, rather than minutes.

ATE is the SECOND best authority in the world, in draw. Even though he has become a sellout to the hold 'em mafia, Mike Caro still has earned his due, as number one. There are not many games, where ATE has to deferr to someone else, and settle for second place.

The first thing for you to know, is that there will be DRASTIC adjustments to your game, based on the structure. Sadly, the online sites have chosen to pretty much RUIN the game, by having only 5 or maybe 6 players at the table. This is, of course TOTALLY WRONGARUSKY! The absence of four betting rounds, MORE than makes up for the fact that there is, in fact a DRAW (in terms of the time it takes to play a hand) And, this "feature" FORCED upon us by the greedy-shortsighted sites, is just something we have to live with. Oh, the game can still be profitable, but without the features of a normal, pre-1987 good 'ole GARDENA-STYLE draw game, it sure aint much FUN.

If you happen to be playing in a home game, the OLD(and BETTER) way, with eight players, AND a "bug" (ED note: 'bug" is a old draw term, for a card that is KINDA like a "joker" but is only good to complete a straight, flush, or as an ace, it is NOT totally "wild")

Then you will play an entirely different game.

BUT, since ATE figures that you are playing online, we will base our discussion on that.

(my GOD, do you realize how lucky you are, to get ATE to answer you?!)

I guess we'll start with the only question you asked, that ATE can remember:

splitting pairs. Well, this is a pretty simple question:

If you feel that it is most likely that you do NOT have the best pair to begin with, then split the pair to go for a flush or straight.

Get your tattoo needles out, that is important.

Example:

You open raise with JJ9108 on the button, the BB reraises, and takes three cards. Now, the chances are overwhelming, that your JJ is no good. "What about improving"? Well, this is about as useful, as a condom that was used for bb gun practice. You are only going to even impove, 30% of the time.
HOWFREAKINEVER! So does your bigger-paired opponent. Thus, you will "miss" MOST of the time, and even when you improve to two pair, or even TRIPS, so too your opponent may improve BIGGER.

This issue, is also one of afterdraw betting action. Most players at the lower limits, will tend to check two pair after the draw. and NOT call with only one pair. Many tricky ones, will even check-raise big trips, to a threecarddrawing opponent. As such, making jacks up is NOT a b etting s ituation. Set of jacks would be NICE, but at around 7-1, it's wishful thinking.
AND

then again we have the problem of our opponent "nutting" us, and making bigger trips. Now, you lose 2 or 3 bets, depending on how the betting goes.

If you make two pair, and the opponent also does AND bets, now you lose one big bet.

If neither improves, you lose the pot, as the JJ against a reraise is an almost certain loser.

So, you draw to the straight, this has several advantages, even though your chances to hit are LESS than improving JJ to a three-card draw.
(remember, the JJ is almost certainly NO good, so you really a re NOT throwing away anything)

Without the "bug" you are looking at 47/8 odds of making the straight, or only around 17% or so (I don't want to hear from MATH FREAKS, that this number may be a half percent off, this means NOTHING, as far as winning poker strategy goes. CLOSE enough, is GOOD enough (a new ATE quote)
you DO need to know whether something is 3-1 or 5-1, but you do NOT need to know if something is 3.24-1 or 12.235 to one. Remember, ATE will NEVER steer you wrong, just because my math ability is good, not great)

So, on first glace, IF you only look at your chances of improving, this may seem a bad play.

But, remember, we are not only concerned with winning the POT, but winning the after-draw betting action (with bets at twice the size of the preflop bets-notice the CORRECT use of "preflop")

So, now (against a three-card draw) you have a raising and reraising hand, instead of a WHIMPY calling-and-likely-LOSING hand(when you improve the JJ)
Many people will NOT bet two big pair into a one-card draw. Against them, you will NOT get multiple bets. HOWEVER, since you RAISED and took one card, and did NOT four-bet, this will look like two-small pair, and your stronger opponents will still bet if they make two big pair, certainly trips.

In addition (notice how ATE REALLLLLY covers his ship("t" changed intentionally)

in the rare, but possible times that the opponent did NOT have a bigger pair, but in fact had something like 77 or 66 AND you miss the straight, but hit a pair, he will likely be scared of trying to bet, and you win when you both check)

ALSO

(And remember, you HOLLYWOOD people, this is a central element of Adam's game)

you gain very good F.I.V.E. value

(Ed note: "FIVE" is an original, OFFICIAL term, of Adamthexpert, I invented it, and I LIVE it . . so don't try to STEAL it)

Future
Image
Value
Expectation


Make no CLUCKIN" mistake: "FIVE" is one of the more essential aspects of poker, one that the FREAKING, IDIOTIC poker "shows" don't tell you about.


It means, that you may have a small -EV (minus expected value, the long-term value of a bet) INITIALLY, however, if you gain FIVE, then you will make money on the play, over the course of time.

HELLO! HELLO! DOES ANYONE OUT THERE EVEN HAVE A TINY IDEA, OF JUST HOW GOOD ATE IS?

Probably, not, or I'd ALREADY have the freakin' tournament seat.


so, by RAISING with what "appears" to be a straight draw, you will get better action of your future pats hands, and other big hands.


If an opponent raps pat BEFORE you, break any pair to draw to a flush, or big straight (jack high or higher) but NOT a small straight. if you have 56788, and someone raps pat . . .

YOU draw three to the pair.


Uh, gee ATE what are the odds of making a full house or quads.


Not very good, oh you draw grasshoppers . . .


BUT,


At around 1% (97-1 house, 402-1 quads)


The chances of winning the pot are much better, than the odds of you

Making the straight+opponent HAPPENING to have one of the 3 pat hands (out of thousands) that you can beat.



Yeah, I'm available for private lessons, SOMETIMES



keep on 'drawing"


adam

[3vb0]

Seems like good advice on the surface.

[ADAMTHEXPERT]

Seems like good advice on the surface.


Well, you are welcome. Nice to see at least a few people here, who have the brains to KNOW that I am the real deal.


Actually, the advice is GREAT, not just good. But, I'll settle for that, FEW NOW.


If people start being nice to me here, I'll give you some of my best "NINJA draw plays"

adam

[ADAMTHEXPERT]

If I get dealt a pair, Ks or smaller and one A, should I keep the pair and draw 3 cards or keep the pair and the A and draw 2 cards?


Ha ha, remember that there are only three people in the world, that you should ask this question to

(1) Mike Caro

(2) Micheal Weisenberg

(3) ADAMtheEXPERT


The issue of keeping a kicker, is indeed a very important part of the game of draw poker. HOWEVER, without the "bug" (described in other article) The notion of keeping this to increase your chances to improve, has gone out the window.

Now, the only reason is to try to discuise the hand. OR, you can make youself a SLIGHLY better chance to improve, DEPENDING of what you feel you have to beat.

to be continued