ADAMTHEXPERT
07-16-2006, 06:47 AM
First things first I have read a few of your latest articles and can see where you are coming from now. I am very sorry about the loss of your family and i can see how that can seriously throw your game off especially if your ill yourself. I'm sorry if i insulted you in any way in any of my privious posts. I think by explaining you situation you got atleast afew people here have turned around. You may have to play in watash21's tourney to get everyone on board, but either way you have to expect some critics with your instructional method.
Second i would like to direct your attention to Clintaurus28's thread under Poker Games > Brags & Bad Beats At the very top of his rant he states the following:
My take on this hand is he shouldn't have called a preflop raise out of position with 10 10 in the first place. If i played this hand and if i could have absolutely put my opponent on overcards or a smaller pair i would have reraised otherwise i would have folded in this situation.
2nd When he makes his hand he slow plays it giving any str8 draw a chance to catch up. In this case he had his opponent badly dominated, but he gave his opponent infinite odds to draw at his 1 out which he subquently made on the turn.
I just wanted to know what you thought of this hand and if my analysis is right. I have only been playing poker a couple months and i might be wrong here but i would have an easy fold with this hand preflop that close to the money....
I hope you keep posting here and if you can get the money and decide to deposit hope to see you at the tables and Good Luck:waytogo:
Dave H.
Well, you certainly came to the right place for the BEST evaluation in the world. Whether the ATE haters choose to believe this or not. I have won a LOT of tourmanets, since my first in 1989. I have a very high ratio to tournament entered, vrs. first place. In fact, It's rare that I "place" either I win a top three spot, or bust out. but then, that's another article.
As far as any insults, it's not necessarry to apologize, just becasue apparently I have caught the eye of a couple respected posters, and now am viewed as "worthwhile"
Any insults that were made (which I cna't remember anyway) were of c ourse, deserved by my a bborhant style and comments.
Now, as far as this touranament, I have a large bankroll and could pretty much play any tourmanet I wanted, PROVIDED that it met with the approval of my manager. Yes, I am treated rather like a baby, but then sometimes I play like one, so very strict measures are undertaken to prevent me from busting out, which surely would happen if left to my own devices.
You see, I can often take my 50 bucks that I am given to play dailey, into 600-2000. BUT, if left with 2000, I would most likely BLOW it, by doing EXACTL"Y what I advise others NOT to do.
Sorta a "what good is money, I can't buy my family back from the dead" sort of thing.
Also, I cannot download anything, only if Luis uses his administrator log in, and he does it.
So, only Stars and Party, are available to me. BUT, if I should become REALLLLLLY popular between now and the 9th, I COULD ask for an account here, and GET it.
yeah, yeah, I know this sounds crazy, some LOUDMOUTH, POTTY-MOUTH SLOB, wants you to listen to my techniques and strategies, while I don't even have control over my money or my computer.
But, once you realize that I am in fact, mentally ill YET STILL the top genius in the world in poker, it all begins to make sense.
This is not something that is easily known, you would really have to reseach the issue. But, if you look hard enough, especially on Cardplayer.com, you will see that I am REVERED as "da man" ESPECIALLY in all matters, omaha, where even those that hate my guts, generally acknowledge my total prowess in this game.
I hope that you and others will really see that I totally KNOW exactly what I am talking about, so that I can become CHERISHED here.
Ok, sorry you had to sift through all that, to get to your question. First off, ATE has these "cute lil' rules" about tournament questions.
Any question that does not provide the correct information, CANN"OT be properly answered!
I mean, I have like eight or ten things that should be included!
I can do with say, FIVE of them, but I CANNOT POSSIBLY give a total answer, without at least knowing the size of the chip stacks involved!
GEEEEEEZE, gimme a break!
STACK SIZE, is as important to tournamsent decisions, as having a vial of antivenom on one's person, is important to one that works in a COBRA farm!
(don't ATE have the CUTEST way of phrazing thangs?)
So, a FIRM answer just cannot be given. However, I certainly will address the question in GENERAL
(ATE now makes an angry GRIMMACE, that I have to write much extra, becaaue the stack sizes were not given, and now I have to show examples, based on the different possibliiteis)
AM I GETTING ANY" FANS YET!
darn! the freakin' hand did not appear here, why the cluck not. Like ATE can remember anything, with my damaged brain!
Ok, the first thing to know is this:
With RARE exceptions, such as being "in the money" being some amount so large that it would change your life, you do NOT play to "get into the money"
Nor do you "play for first" This overagressive attitude, has killed more tournament players, than Gus Hanson's lucky rivers! YOU PLAY TO GET AS HIGH A PRIZE AS THE CIRCUMSTANCES PERMIT.
Thus, you do not just go wildly charging ahead, desperate to "win the thing" while conversely, you do not chicken out like Nevil Chamberland, hoping to slide into the money.
Classic blend of offense and defense. Hey, while I'm on the subject, I would recommend to my readers, that they read a book about SNIPERS! There is much to learn, poker-wise, about the basic principles of sniping.
OFFENSE vrs DEFENSE.
Oh yes, indeeedy, you can learn a LOT from the study of snipers.
You see, a sniper just does'nt risk his life (by being spotted) FOR nothing. But, they also will NOT chicken out, when the target is important enough, to take the risk
RISK vrs. REWARD.
Same thing in tournaments, risk vrs reward vrs. power on hand, vrs penality of getting caught.
Yes, that's a MOUTHFUL, so let's explain:
The absolute central issue here is NOT "out of position" We won't get into it now, but the whole notion of "position" is mostly COMPLETLY backwards!
In some games, position is of TOTAL importance, such as lowball draw.
HOWEVEr, in games with check and raise, and NO cards actually being drawn, the significance of this is TOTALL"?Y TOTALLY over-rated!
(oh, I"ve opened up a can of worms there)
yeah, you CONSIDER the element of position, but you do not throw away a powerful hand, just because you will be "out of position"
The ability to make an accurate read of your opponent, remember their traits and tendencies, etc. and also the abililty to MAKE THE FREAKIN' MOST OUT OF THE POSITION YOU HAVE (Ed note: this philosophy is 100% totally ATE-original, and YES, it's accurate) is amount 10,000 times more important than "position'
So you're last, SO WHAT! The opponent could be check-raising, so just because t hey checked, means little.
Oh, this is like a BOOK of info to fully explain, not a "post"
USEFUL, by not all-encompassing, as those that can only REPEAT what they've heard, and not form accurate strategies based on 20 years of being there, and beatin' them
again, USEFUL, but not the issue here.
The REAL issuse here, is stack size. What percentage of the player's stack, is the other 1400? How much does the raiser have? How aggressive and predictable is the opponent that is raising? These are the issues that you need to consider.
Now, if the person with the tens has a tiny stack, say 6K or less left, than this is your "alamo" hand, and you would go all in. This is espicially true, in tourmansets with very short rounds, such as most online events. It is also very true, CONSIDERING THE POSITION OF THE PREFLOP RAISER. In this spot, they could have a VERY weak hand, and a ONE-overcard hand is very very likely. There are 8 pairs, smaller than the tens. Who knows, they could actually have some two UNDERcard hand, such as 78suited, and be making this play.
AND, this presupposes that they will CALL with those hands, the worst of which most will NOT, and then you win the pot right there, which at this point is a "good thing"
If they do call with a oneovercard hand, well this leaves you pretty much 70-30 A smaller pair, 80-20. And, again, at this point, that's about the best you can expect.
with a bb of 800 and a sb of 400 and likely antes as well, and a 6k stack, it ai'nt like you be g ot all the time in the world to just wait around for anti-aircraft artillery. (AAA) or "ant antennas" (and ATE original term)
when facing a small stack, you will always have an "alamo" hand, one that you MUST make a stand.
Identifying that hand, and KNOWING that it is right to make a stand, takes experience.
If the person has a stack of say 10-14 K, thenthere will most likely be a better opportunity before you get short, so calling here is not correct, considering the close proximity to the "bubble" If the f lop comes low cards AND the raiser did indeed have a large pair, you be BUSTED, in a situation where it was not necessary, AND where your hand was not so strong as to mandate a call.
With tens, you really just are NOT high enough of the spectrum of possible hands, to consider that you have a better-than-average of surviving the flop, much less winning the hand.
AND, with a stack of this size, the IMPLIED odds of hitting a set AND catching the preflop raiser for her(his) (ain't ATE PC!) stack.
So, with 10K, ATE would certainly WAIT until I had POSITION (remember, I said it WAS useful) and was the ORIGINAL raiser, and NOT the caller.
BUt, if the person had say 15K and up, then a call would be in order, but then the person MUST be careful after the flop.
In this spot, you are MAINLY trying to catch a great flop, and get the raisser's whole stack, or a very large part of it.
HOWEVER, if you do call, and get some innocent-looking flop, such as 2 4 8, and bet , say 4K and get RAISED you just have to give it up.
VERY VERY few players have the GUTS, to just raise here with an unimporved AK, and even if they did, would still have a 25% chance to beat you.
AND, with your 8K or so left, would still have a chance to win the thing.
KNOWING THAT EVEN WITH A FEW CHIPS LEFT YOU CAN STILL COME BACK AND WIN, AND HAVING THE ABILITY TO MAKE THE APPROPRITE LAYDOWNS IS ONE OF THE MOST ESSENTIAL SKILLS THAT THE TOP PLAYERS HAVE, AND THAT YOU WANT TO DEVELOP, IF YOU EVER WANT TO WEAR A "BRACELET"
oh yes, you may quote me, The above quote is one of my BEST ever.
ATE once one first in an event, (no biggie, 7K for first) when with 50 people left, I only had enough chips for 2 bigs, and 1 small.
So, don't NEVER think that just because you put in 35-45 percent of your chips, that you HAVE to call.
although not completely non-existennt, the concept of "pot-commited" is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY overused.
(My God, do any of you realize just how good I am. Do you see that if I were not mentally ill, that I WOULD BE ONE OF THESE FREAKIN' TV STAR PLAYERS)
GEEZE, this is LONG, thanks to whoever was responsible for NOT including stack size.!
And, of course if you had a huge stack, AND the raising opponent had enough to make it worthwhile to try to flop a set, or at least a pair/open end combo, you would call.
Thus your 40K vrs raisers 40K and you would CALL, but NOT reraise, and NOT get involved if you did not "set up"
Ok, now after the flop, I'm very afraid that you "missed the boat" as far as being afraid of giving a free card.
Now, if you were in the "ATE school of poker" you would know that I CONSTANTLY drill it into your SKULLS, just how important it is in SCHMOLD' EM, to NOT give free cards.
HOWEVVVVVVVVVVVVVER! Like most things in life, there are exceptions.
In this case, the odds of your opponent actually having a hand that could make a straight on the turn, COMBINED with them subsequently hitting it, COMBINED with you not hitting your redraw, are so INTERCOURSIN" remote, that it is a non-issue.
UNLESS OF COURSE< the pot, compared to your stack size, is such that you would be happy to have the pot RIGHT NOW.
Thus, with 5K remaining in your stack, and the pot at (5K, I believe?) Betting out would be the play as it would be more important to NOT be out of the event on some REMOTE suck-out, considering that you could not win more than 5K from the opponent anyWH"OOOOO
(note to Hollywood poker management, DO YOU APPRECIATE A.T.E.? My God, I could totally MAKE your site)
With a set, the chance of losing this pot to a free card is RRRRRRREEEEEEEMMMMMMOOOOTTTTEEE! In the vast , and ATE means VAST majority of instances, the opponent will be drawing DEAD with this flop, and THUS
The chances of the "free card" making them something to go bust on, FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FART(ooops) FAR FAR exceed the free card costing you the tourmaent.
Back to the sniper theory. Platoon of soldiers at 100 meters armed with RPG's and machine guns: DO NOT TAKE THE SHO"T
General at 700 meters, where no one can even SEE you, and where you are WAY beyond the range of his handgun . . . .. BANG, you dead!
Now, as far as the one outter, uh DUDE, if someone bet a BILLION chips, they are going to call with the second set anyway, so it's not like they're checking cost them that tourmanet.
It's just like stepping on the ONE landmine, in a field that measures 1000 yards by 1000 yards, IT WAS JUST YOUR TIME, AND THERE WAS NOTING YOU COULD HAVE DONE ABOUT IT.
oK, i THINK THAT'S ENOUGH
i HAVE SPOKEN.
And please, anyone what thinks ATE is great, please bring this up to management.
And the celebrities, ATE really needs the (positive) attention.
Thanks
Adam
ADAMTHEXPERT
07-29-2006, 08:32 PM
Of course ATE is correct, we need to know stack sizes, but in general I beleive not betting the flop is a huge mistake. You don't want him to fold his weak draws you want him to call with his weak draws. That flop was not scary. The pre flop raiser probably had a big pair and would have called a bet or probably reraised. Exactly what you want in that situation. You are betting for value, the trick is finding the right amount to bet so that he'll either call or reraise. That will depend on how well you know your opponet, stack size etc.
Why would you slow play? For the slow play to work, you want his hand to improve enough so that he'll bet on the turn and you can trap him. With that flop what could he improve to? Possibly a str8, if he has bigger cards a better set. Most cards that would improve his will beat you. If he doesn't improve he'll just check or fold to your bet on the turn or river. Obviously, if he doesn't improve and calls your bets on the turn or river he would have called on the flop also. So you may as well bet on the flop and build the pot.
SORRY, but this is the TEXTBOOK situation for slow playing, BAR NONE!
And remember, I am the most outspoken PROPONENT IN THE WORLD, on
NOT
slowplaying!
"probably has a big pair" Where did you get that idea, sir/friend/co-member?
I placed in the money, the other day in a 700 person tournament, and NEVER FREAKIN' GOT A BIG PAIR.
ooops, ok, one pair of jacks. Also, I only had ONE ace king, and after making a small raise, had to fold to a massive reraise.
(Ed note: if you think this was crazy . .)
(1) stop playing tourmanets until your misconceptions are corrected
(2) read ATE's classic article "ace king, it ain't no bling bling")
My logic is TOTALLY flawless.
Hey, did you even READ my whole article? I SPLAINED everything completly.
AGAIN
I AM THE MOST OUTSPOKEN PROPONENT ON not SLOWPLYAING IN THE WORLD,
so, If I say to slowplay, then it IS correct.
As I said before: the chances of them having a draw that could beat you, AND hitting said draw, AND you not re-improving are so so so remote, it's almost NOT even a consideration.
(almost)
The logic is totally FLAWLESS: If they be got a big p;air, they be bet anyway, so you don't have to bet yourself.
BUT, if they be NOT g ot anything, AND you bet, then they be FOLDING.
yes, it's not very likely that if all they be got is overcards, FER one of 'dem overcards to actually hit.
BUT
It's a much greater chance, than having them call all their chilps with just an unimproved, AK lets say especially when you COMBINE (ATE's signature word)
it with the GOOD possiblity of the betting when checked to.
THET CHANCES IN THIS SPOT OF THE FREE CARD GIVING THEM ENOUGH ROPE TO HANG THEMSELVES, ARE FAR, MUCH, MUCHO, TRES, ETC ETC LARGER THAN THE FREE C ARD GIVING THEM A BETTER HAND, WITH A FREAKIN draw that they would NOT have actually called with.
If they be got J9 in this spot, they BE goin' fer it anyway. (most likely)
BUT,
If they be got no pair, you will very very very lilely LOOOSE any further value, by betting.
Either they will bet themselves, OR you just gotta give em TWO chances to hit a pair, and jhope fer the best.
there is even more, but that's all you get f er free.
Ok, don't take this the wrong way, this is just a standdard ATE comment, and is not inteded to insult you, but rather serve to emphasise my greatness
"The day that you know more about poker than ATE, will be after the worms have finished eating my dead brain"
YOu will then know more than me, but NOT more than the worms!"
I have freakin' spoken
Adam
ADAMTHEXPERT
07-30-2006, 11:39 PM
WHAT tournament finish! 69th out of 700 something players is NOT a finish. But, my KQ could well have beaten that cluckin' 99 (who made a TERRIBLE play, by reraising me all in, by the way)
Look, I'm getting SICK of this now. You cannot be right, becaue ATE said yopu're NOT, so get used to it!
A small bet MAY be called, or it MAY not be. who cares about a SMALL bet.
what we want, is for the overcards to either try to "shoot their way out" or HIT, and THEN CERTAINLY call all their c hips, or bet all their chips.
If this was the freakin' RIVER, a small bet would be in order, as this is the last chance to bet.
But, it AIN"T. you still have a chance on the turn, AND the river.
I thought I told you I was DONE with this.
ENOUGH.
In no limit, we are NOT interested in "value" we are interested in STACKS.
Give the guy a chance to bluff, (or even just think that AK is still good)
or HIT.
THE ONLY FREAKIN' TIME A BET WOULD BE MORE CORRECT, IS IF THE TEXTURE WAS SO THREATENING, THAT SOMEONE MAY WELL NOT BET.
with this texture, and them bein' da' preflop raiser, they are almost certainly GOING to bet.
And THIS is the only consideratino we have(with THIS hand, and THIS flop)
Having them FOLD to your bet, when they WERE either going to bet, or hit their card on the turn, and subsequently lose the rest of their chips, (when only trying to get a small amount)
IS A TOURNAMENT DISASTER, HERE.
and, if they be got, and you bet got REALLY big stacks,
THEN IT'S AN EVEN HUGER DISASTER.
enough, no more from you about this, or I 'm really going to have to get nasty.
Here's how you can tell if something is right, in the furure (so yo'll know)
IF I SAID IT.
then it's right.
I have spoken
Adam
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